who caused the gatlinburg fires?
Regarding the Chimney Tops Fire of Nov 14th, 2016, https://www.facebook.com/GreatSmokyMountainsNPS/posts/1236286613095333. I was struck by the daunting task of creating a viable fire-prevention plan in that area of constant tourist turnover, and the way it is laid-out. I particularly liked Sharon Jensens after action summary. The DA in Sevier County has put a gag rule in effect since the get go to protect the teeneagers involved. Excellent information and supporting documentation. The fire gutted the entire city block and closed a dozen businesses. This was done to simply to avoid tort liability claims even though a claim was filed; and to avoid accountability. Cafe 420 and Gifts of Gatlinburg were also destroyed. Its always been this way so you have to watch who you deal with, this is why the City and County need to clean this up, this would bring down the prices of these people with signs up everywhere for clean up. Copyright 2022 WVLT. Instead, the city ordered evacuation of the neighborhoods nearest the NPS day use area that was on fire (Mynatt Park and others). If youve ever been in an incident management role you understand often having made a good decision given the best information available at the time you dont get the outcome you want. Do arsonists typically work alone? I am positive that for anyone who gives of themselves to protect and serve will forever be haunted by that far more than anyone of us can expect to hold them accountable by lynching. So sometime during the night as we now know everything burned down. I think 6 days should have been plenty of time for them to do something we now see what inaction causes, dont we. Can we allow room for others to fail forward? The fire on Sunday caused extensive damage to a block of . What caused the Gatlinburg wildfire? I told her my concerns of fire, traffic, and falling trees blocking flow of traffic were there an emergency. We spent Thanksgiving there with our family, who left on Sunday. Fire those managers! As a former FF, their claim that they could have never put it out if they tried from day one is BS. This is the way to honor each other and to learn. It is this same type of think tank and diversity we need in reaching a host of solutions to our complexity of problems both in this situation and in all others. When I came out of dr. office, which is located on Middle Creek close to hospital, the atmosphere was eerie. On the night before I left for Branson, I had terrible nightmares of being caught in a forest fire in Branson. Visibility was bad and it was hard to breathe as we unpacked our truck. Our responses to this fire event have included comments with blame and fault-finding as well as a suggestion that we investigate in order to learn for future decision-making. The NPS investigation team has all this information and everything posted on Wildfire Today and a lot of info that was never made public. They had identifiedon a map a 410-acre fire management area which, depending on weather conditions, may allow for further fire growth. The excellent Park folks seemed to just monitor it, and it resolved itself. At this time, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation officials were contacted, according to the report. Wednesday, November 23, the day the fire started. Guessing the fire spotted from the Chimneys, to Bullhead, then on to Twin Creeks area. Also. Did the fire have to be so devastating? I was in my cabin the night of the fire and if I had spotted it a minute or so after I did I would not be alive to type this right now. You may have a point regarding lawsuits, reported actions and actual actions. It is truly appreciated. The body of an unidentified person was found amid the rubble of a downtown section of buildings that. Most excellently put, Jeannine (you are an exceptional writer). The Chimney Tops 2 could be a good case in point. On Sunday evening we discussed with Gatlinburg friends the forecast for high winds on Monday, so I disagree with local Gatlinburg officials that they were caught by surprise. Finally a local coalition was formed to put pressure on NPS officials to uphold their mandate on historic structures. One question I have not seen asked is why any adult would have witnessed children playing with matches and lighting fires especially under the obvious conditions in this situation and 1. not taken immediate action 2. The report stated the demolition was requested due to the health and safety of the citizens and visitors in the event of a full structure collapse.. It is unfortunate that in our society people who speak out with a loud voice, or otherwise make waves for the privileged, get not only scorned but categorically destroyed by well planned out and financed design, often full of cover-up and lies and then propaganda is feed to the rest of us, of which we often take for gospel, when in fact is often not based on evidence or fact. And I dont write about that many of them. Since November 29 it has rained about every 2 to 3 daysin the Gatlinburg area. I am glad so many are taking a look at this situation, and hopefully never loosing sight of the intention to improvement and a better way. The Tip Line is 888-653-0009. Down hemlocks are mostly just gone. Talk about finger pointing! China Bazaar, Pucker's Sports Grill, Gifts of . These are the facts and simple truths that should not be ignored. Thanksfully ATF agents helped TN Bureau of Investigation put their full resources at hand and arrested to two teenage idiots that started the fire. By being so quick to lynch people we have created a fear of decision-making and a paralysis of critical thinking. Would be interesting to dig down to find the ash line (which is probably illegal on federal lands). A friend that owns a rental company there said that about 90% of the homes in the area which leave them 10% they can rent or sale. A lot of personnel put forth heroic efforts to save lives and we should all be grateful for that. This would explain why they are all covering for each other. Crews are currently taking down the China Bazaar and Puckers building. I hope the governors investigation team finds all of the miscues AND gets proper training for all the different agencies involved. But, that team is there to give future corrective actions, not to formulate lawsuits. It seems to me that the extreme wind was as unprecedented as the drought and the low stream levels. Nearby businesses feel the same. I feel sad for everyone involved. Considering the record of wind gusts between 5-6pm and that the fire had jumped US 441, NPS calling Gburg Fire Dept. With that all happening before lunch. A similar fire occurred on English Mountain. The aptly named Fire Cherry, Beech and Mtn. Mitchell, Mt. Branches were hitting the house with a great deal of force. I can name 14 people who deserved much better! One indicator of drought and its effect on how wildfires burn is the Keetch-Byram Drought Index(KBDI). These things dont come with the same cheap city plans out here in the rural mountainous zones! The coolness and the moisture were gone. We have had dry conditions in years past and there has probably been fires in the past and nothing like this ever happened. Were these simply copy cat arsonists, arsonists with the most ridiculous stories to offer for why they lit these fires, or were they just cover-ups for something more sinister? Compare the events to their fire management manual and contradictions are present. I think the point is that IMT managed wildfires in the southeast had residents in pre-evac mode when high winds were forecast before each cold front passed. The park needs to share accountability in this situation, and all of us who have formerly worked in fire realize this. And not only they had time to evacuate but I called 911 Monday night on Nov. 28 2016 and ask if there was any evacuation orders for Gatlinburg and was told By The 911 operator no not at this time Later found out the whole place was on fire at the same time I called 911 ( WHY ) was I lied to ? By the end of the day on Sunday the fire had burned approximately 35 acres, according to Ms. Schroer and the results from a mapping flight (see the 3-D mapabove). Very good pictures! I would also hope that we would figure out that such major climate disruptions as the recent drought in the Southeast are getting more common and that human action has helped cause, and can help cure, such disruptions. This appears to be the case once again. It is now time for aircraft (usually helicopters) to start washing the fire off the hill. Bob and I had discussions about what we would do if we were to be surprised by wildfires up Beech Branch Road with no warning. So whether the defendants started the 14th fire or not, a close examination of this Facebook press release indicates the fire apparently started on the 13th; and yet a social media photo post claims the 12th clearly showing a lack of response once again in fire suppression by the NPS. The terrain was steep, a vertical distance of 1,300 feet from the bottom of the drainages to the top of the hill. A temporary evacuation refuge with limited services is located at Max Hasse Community Park . I certainly agree there are definitely consequences for our actions, for some more than others. Obviously spent no time in the military so they didnt know how to field dress A cigarette and pack it out. The successes, and the losses, the poor decisions, the mistakes, the error and the failures. These folks do this often in situations in which they have little control over much of the situation or outcomes. Instead 14 people are dead, many are injured, 2000 structures burned, loss is now a pandemic. It would be interesting to understanding the impact of excessive fuel from dead hemlocks, killed by hemlock wooly adelgid (together with the lack of moisture typically found under a mature, live, shady hemlock canopy, even with the extreme drought conditions) had on this fire. That is great knowledge to share. If this is the same Bob Stanton commenting here, then the bias is way too obvious. We left Monday the 28th around 10:30 A.M. we could smell smoke but our home was fine and so was all of the rest of them in Chalet Village North. I was on the Party Rock fire in NC and our IMET was predicting that storm event 3-4 days before it happened. Intense, deep burning fires with significant downwind spotting should be expected. The electricity goes out almost everytime there is a high wind. GATLINBURG, Tenn. (WVLT) - Four downtown Gatlinburg businesses are picking up the pieces after a fire Sunday morning destroyed their building. If their destination is not lit, they have to land there no later than 30 minutes after sunset. I have a close friend on IMT in southern CO so have some familiarity with the process. I told him to go up and park in driveway close to where I wanted to leave the truck and that I would drive truck up. I was surprised that we saw no one at the closed Chimneys parking area early morning when we drove by. teams had Lake Lure and Tate City evacuate when high winds were forecast. NO managing wildfire is much more complex, especially in a multiple fire drought driven incident like managers were dealing with on this incident. Theres no guarantees that putting a couple hotshot crews with good air support on that fire earlier could have prevented this tragedy, but that would have been more defensible. Would it not be more beneficial to hold accountability by insuring that analysis of cause and effect and learning take place; that change is done where change is needed? For example politicians far away from the event make decisions regarding funding, resources and operations. Lets hope that this round regarding the fire and loss of life, it will be more difficult for officials to weasel out of this one. When the Chimney Tops 2 Fire burned into Gatlinburg on November 28, 2016 and destroyed thosestructures it was drivenprimarily by weather specifically, very strong winds. Even though I am located adjacent to the National Forest lands on 3 sides, I cannot invite them onto my property to help me lessen the fuel load proximal to my home. Not clouding the issues with the intent to take down a person. Kind of like closing the barn door after the cow gets out, dont you think? For folks afflicted by this tragedy, emotions running high should be expected; and it is understandable for Kelly Morgan to be upset. An expert, a hero or success is the one who takes a vulnerable risk at making a decision and by grace the outcome is positive, by contrast is the person who makes similar vulnerable risk in decision-making and by grace the outcome is negative. Was it ever fully suppressed? Rippetoe hopes the destruction isnt there much longer and all businesses lost can return. We waited as the days passed until we could go and see if ours had burned. It just so happens that at this time hundreds of fires were subsequently being started all around the south! I appreciate how articulately you described your thoughts. As the crow flies, thats not far from Gatlinburg and Ive heard of and read about how quickly wildfires spread and how far reaching they can be under dry conditions from drought. But instead great risks were taken through basic inaction and the consequences were disastrous. As citizens we should be aware of all threats we face and expect our leadership to plan ahead as best they can. I will not be looking for Gatlinburg or Sevier county first response personnel as those people will be grounded by a spineless group of county, city and NPS managers Who can only be described as cowardly indecisive. Breathing between car and house was hard. Ive noted the contrast between how the Incident Management Teams approached the fires compared to the NPS. Youre right change is hard to come by. There are three broad categories of conditions that affect the way a wildfire burns: weather, fuels (vegetation), and topography. 10/10/22, 1:56 p.m. I told him there wasnt when I got there at 5 oclock but I could not even see driveways on the way up. I dont understand, but I dont judge. But outright blame? That said, we are now in the rebuild mode. With the wildfires scattered across western N.C., we are lucky that, given parallel conditions of the wildfires that swept down the Chimney Tops into Gatlinburg ..i.e. My nightmare depicted more what happened in Gatlinburg than so far in Branson. How many sorties could those planes do in an single day even if they had been deployed on Even Friday?? We couldnt go up Motor Nature Trail so we went back to Cherokee Orchard Road. Thanks again for this forum. Lets see, that would probably consist of a GS-5 or 6 and two or three seasonal GS-4s. It caused a shutdown . On the evening of the fire, I was monitoring tornadic storms across northern Mississippi because my family were driving to Try to stay neutral I understand; but the NPS has a track record of avoiding accountability. Conspiracy, no. And each structure became much more of a threat than the spreading ground fire ever was. Im sure there will be lots of finger pointing, name calling pushing for blame and then legal actions. Are city and county officials learning to use the expensive Motorola radio system that would have allowed various agencies to communicate when cell service went down? Youve certainly added much food for thought. Then the wind comes!!! If the Park Service had done there job in the first place and City and County leaders would have stepped in and done something this could and would have been prevented. That night after we arrived home we started getting text from friends showing fires at the Park Vista Hotel, then one from our neighbors across the street, he lives in Knoxville called and said he had been there at 5:30 P.M. this was on the 28th and when he left it was smokey but everything was still fine. A massive wildfire in the Tennessee resort towns of Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge has destroyed more than 150 structures, including homes and businesses, authorities said Tuesday. Since we had been planning all day to go downtown to play trivia at Smoky Mountain Brewery, we left the house about 5:55PM. The People have been deceived with a vague and biased investigation regarding this particular bear incident. Whether a tornado, hurricane or natural disaster, it weighs on your psyche. When I got home our dog was sneezing repeatably so I brought her in. We had hiked to the Chimneys for the view many times it was easy to see the wind being funneled down from there to Gatlinburg just like an invisible whitewater river. Sunset that day was at 5:21 p.m. which would have allowed them to drop on the fire until 5:51 p.m., 30 minutes after sunset. It is so much easier to sit on the outside, pass judgement and sentencing in the name of accountability than it is to be involved in the event of vulnerability in action. How Gatlinburg attempted to notify its residents to evacuate as the fire burned into the city, http://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/tennessee/2016/12/13/timeline-gatlinburg-wildfires/95138656/, http://www.southernfireexchange.org/etc/ITPFISE.pdf, Long bushfire season wears down firefighters in Queensland and Western Australia, Community near Heppner, Oregon first in Morrow County to earn Firewise designation, County Cork fire brigades work through the night on gorse fires, Renewed call for the Holy Grail of firefighter tracking, Hiker owes $300,000 for Arizona wildfire he started. Thanksgiving Day Global Supertanker 747 is responding to wild fires in Israel. Alice Hagler, who went missing at Chalet Village, was identified Wednesday night by her son Lyle Wood, who said his mother's body had been found "in the ruins of her home, her life taken by a. and see if he could get any information. I may be alone in thinking that, but I do think the Feds would stand up to local influence. Alice Hagler was reported missing by her family and later confirmed dead. Shame on you. Narrowing it down to human-causes is easy for an investigator. Yes government at all levels needs to be held accountable; otherwise we regress back into the Dark Ages. If an aircraft will be en route to a lit helibase or airport, they can drop 30 minutes after sunset then fly to the lit facility. But I believe there is a fourth element of fire behavior prediction and that is the element of situational awareness. Who was responsible for Gatlinburg fire? The one picture showing a PVC clean-out with charring on it is a very good example of a very fast, hot torch of flame blasting a relatively small area. They knew the high winds were coming days ahead of that Monday. Bob called. Id just like to ask folks to think about If prior experience of fires in the region may have betrayed fire managers this time. We need to hold, that experience though often shared, does not fit into every mold, because in the real world though some laws are universal, there is always changing variable and situations are never really exactly the same. One other consideration relevant to some of the previous comments about the aggressiveness or lack thereof in dealing with the fire in the first few days is the context of other ongoing wildfires. Not everything that happened with the fires had a dotted line to those two teens. Their chronological order of events doesnt match up with what some folks were observing posted on social media. (Originally published at 11:04 a.m. MST November 23 . It is to be considered, but verified by other means. We are facing some very large problems around our globe and in our own home communities, that will require some out of the box thinking and collaboration, some tough questions, and a lot of personal accountability review and growth. My boys and I do not have images of wildfires that we would have seen had we waited to leave home. This isnt finger pointing its the simple facts of the entire situation like it or not! Park Service has not issued any warnings and there are no active fires in Gatlinburg city limits. I ask her if they had plans of issuing a warning if evacuations became necessary and ask her how they would do that. (PETER PARKS/AFP via Getty Images) Chan estimated the insurance claim could . Holding the responsible people accountable is the only course of action that honors what was lost. It is written by Stephanie Sweeney, whose house was off the Spur between Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge. Fires in the Great. Things dont change unless people stand up and make them change. I have memories of the endless mountainous terrain, but the vast development that came into being, came well after my trip there. What good does it do to lynch those who are learning and gaining the very experience we expect and seek? Both east and west forks of the Pigeon River. Emotions do get the best of us. Nearly five years. GATLINBURG, Tenn. (WVLT) - On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9 that killed one person and injured another. The NPS protected themselves and other special interest groups as well. Most of us are hopeful the two young man responsible for causing this fire will be severely punished however after all of the expert testimony to not only the Knoxville news Sentinel times what other periodicals claiming gross mishandling of the beginning of the Chimney Tops 2 fire by the forestry service as well as the Gatlinburg fire department I am certain that the Philadelphia lawyer that they have hired will use this in their defense and I would not bet that they will get a much lighter sentence as a result . It means they eliminated natural causes, such as lightning and volcano eruptions. I called Bob back and told him I was leaving hurriedly and that I would call him when we had made it out of woods to Pigeon Forge. It was about 11:30AM when we got to downtown Gatlinburg, where I took photos of the heavy on the Parkway in town. But all sitting back and doing nothing to help. Finally, the Superintendent has the power to call up all the resources which were available. When we got to end of Beech Branch Rd., and turned onto Spur, there was no traffic but the winds were getting worse. Bob, I know where youre coming from. Many are willing to allow the absolute open permission to some to behave as they will without question, but are unwilling to allow others the same room to learn and grow. The adelgid apparently needs the rougher bark of older trees to climb up the trunk to the greenery on which they feed. The IMT reported that the fire had not increased in size over the previous 24 hours and was still listed at 17,006 acres. Someone must have started the fire. People responsible during the initial stages of the Chimney Top 2 wildfire need to be held accountable for violating these basic rules of fire physicsperiod. The governor needs to hear that, as well. GSMNP Facebook has pulled comments, photos, and replies as well in regard to the 14th fire. The next morning we werent allowed to go check on our house because of fires still burning and impassable roads. Unfortunately this isnt always the case. One good place, James, to view an area after a devastating wildfire is adjacent to the Blue Ridge Parkway in and around the 418 milepost-the Graveyard Fields/ Shining Rock Wilderness areas. Ten people were hospitalized after a Spirit Airlines plane bound for Orlando, Florida, made an emergency landing in Jacksonville due to a fire onboard, according to officials. Just looking at media coverage on the evacuation order public messaging snafu points out that this fire will provide many lessons learned for future fire managers. Though the drought and winds were undoubtedly an act of God (Psalms 148:8; 1st Kings 17:1), NPS and other officials were not left ignorant. Many on that team are not NPS employees, but are highly experienced wildfire fighters. Something broke down here and at the risk of not being PC the important thing is that the issues are discovered and learning takes place followed by action. On Oct. 9, a woman who was working at the Ripleys Aquarium smelled smoke and walked up to 745 Parkway Suite 4 to investigate. James, thank you for that compliment! Hasnt anyone noticed that friends groups are paying for major park infrastructure and various other projects that our Congress has failed to provide for? That is when I said to myself Where the hell is TEMA?. All three incidents have a common denominator. I would rather have someone on the job who has screwed up, erred and learned from the experience as I know that the chances of a repeat performance are lessened and for most learners they will progress forward with even better decision making skills. Teddy Roosevelt, who as you may know, was instrumental in establishing our national parks. The fire did not get up the valley to the Alum Cave Parking Lot, and LeConte Lodge is fine. Im totally with you accountability. Flies north of fire (s) in TN. We are emotional beings, we feel and we have the capability to think. Thank all of you. This is just one more example of one more related issue that is seemingly un-connected until you delve into the issues deeply. When the fire started on Chimney Tops I thought surely the National Park Service would take necessary steps to put it out quickly because of the sure danger of it spreading. Climate change, human, social, political and economic factors are all also a part of this outcome, cause and effect. I went back a few years ago and it was completely different. Neddo said total shock is the only way to describe how he feels. My wife and I hiked to Alum Cave Bluffs Saturday, Nov. 26, while the fire was small up on the Chimneys. When I built a home here just a few years ago and wanted to have a sprinkler system installed, I was told we dont have big wildfires here. We listened to local TV news at home which reported voluntary evacuations for Mynatt Park after fire was reported in the Twin Creeks area.
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